Master Woo Myung’s Message - Dialogues - A Question & Answer Session with Journalists
Master Woo Myung Message – A Question & Answer Session with Journalists
Dialogue & Interview
Woo Myung speaks with anyone who wants to know the Truth. Through the dialogues with him, one would realize the mind of Universe and its wisdom, which encompasses all without any uncertainty; from existence and death, life and the nature’s flow, the Universe and nature, to philosophy, science and religion.
A Question & Answer Session with Journalists
This is an excerpt from an interview with TV and newspaper journalists in December 1998 at the Main Center.
INFORMATION
Journalists: SBS journalist, Seung Joo Lee/ KBS journalist, Hyun Dae Kim/ Dong-A Ilbo journalist, Sang Hyun Kim/ Saegae Ilbo journalist
Question :
What kind of a life is a ‘well-lived’ life?
Woo Myung :
The way for a person to ‘live well’ is to enter into the nature’s flow and behave like a true human-being. It is no easy feat to live having completely eliminated one’s self, but it can be said that a life that is lived without attachments to life is a truly ‘well-lived’ life. Everyone goes through suffering, pain and experiences heavy burdens, but a ‘well-lived life’ is one where one eliminates his self and he does not bear those burdens. It is human to speak grandly but behave differently, when one meets circumstances that demand sacrifices or which encroach on him or his life. However, when one’s self no longer exists, the conflicts in his life disappear and he is not attached to the life he lives – this is the best way to live one’s life.
Question :
What is the ‘nature’s flow’?
Woo Myung :
The ‘nature’s flow’ means that everything is based on and happens according to a certain order. Everything in the world took place, and is still taking place, according to the nature’s flow. Thus the nature’s flow, or universal order, is the work of the world; it is the work of heaven and earth. People try to fix and change this nature’s flow, but each time they do so they encounter severe disasters and suffer. And they look to God, because they cannot overcome these disasters. It is not by God that people live; people live by the nature’s flow. Teaching people about the nature’s flow is a big task. Teaching the laws of heaven is called chundo (meaning the way to heaven) but the nature’s flow is something that must be taught to man and earth specifically. The nature’s flow is to be within order; and to be within order is to be like water that flows; and to be like water that flows is to be without conflict and stagnation. To not stagnate is to be alive; and to be alive is to be able to always move forward. To be able to always move forward to is to be able to arrive in the complete world. From the water’s point of view, the complete world is like the ocean, which is without words, free, and at peace, and without qualms. In the complete world, the conditions for life for all things are the same – there are no causes for dissatisfaction because all things are one. This is what it is to be complete. People can also reach the ‘ocean’ if they live according to the nature’s flow. The nature’s flow is the utmost wisdom that people can have. One must try not to be at odds with the nature’s flow because if he is, he will eventually suffer some misfortune. Such is what nature’s flow is.
Question :
What is the purpose behind life and living?
Woo Myung :
Man is originally born from vitality of non-existence, so to be born is to change from non-existence to existence. When man comes to have form, he begins to believe that he is his form and sets goals and objectives that are related or bound to his form. However, after one has eliminated himself, his goals and objectives are those of a saint – they are the way of Truth. These are the best goals – the best purpose – that one can have.
Question :
What is the difference between a (holy) saint and a complete person?
Woo Myung :
To be holy is to be without self. It is holy to sacrifice one’s life for others, and it is also holy to live for others. Therefore, a holy saint refers to someone who lives for others. A complete person is a person who is beyond sainthood. A complete person is, as the name suggests, a person who is complete. To be complete is to be completely without self. Such a person is at a level above that of a saint who sacrifices himself for others; he lives yet he does not, he does not exist even as he lives and breathes. Such is the state of a complete person. A complete person has no obstacles or hindrances; he has no suffering; he has no joy or sorrow; and he is the master of all creations in the world. Therefore, he is higher than a saint. We will now be able to witness many complete people. For such people nothing is impossible because they are complete. It is the first time that complete people have appeared, not just in the history of the world but in the history of the entire Universe. Our future is bright because a complete person has appeared in the world; a person who knows how to sacrifice himself for the greater good instead of sacrificing blindly; a person who knows and possesses the nature’s flow.
Question :
Why did heaven create people?
Woo Myung :
In a way it is not correct to say that people were created by heaven or that they were made or shaped into existence by heaven because man himself is heaven, the earth and all creations. The real identity of the Universe is simply that which exists as it is. If we had to speak of a reason people were created, it would be that they were made to govern over all creations. Namely, people were made to rule over the creations and live according to the nature’s flow. However, the human world is a problem because people do not do so. In other words, the man and the creations are one and the same but the man was made to govern over the creations. This means that he should use all things in creation so that all people can live fair and equal lives, and not so that he can use them for his own greed. All things are heaven itself, and heaven or the sky is absolutely fair. People should also share fairly and equally, and govern over all creations according to the nature’s flow. This is the reason heaven created people.
Question :
Why is the human great?
Woo Myung :
The human’s greatness comes from the fact that only the man has the wisdom to reach heaven. Furthermore, only the man has the ability to govern over all creations, but this must come after he discovers his true self. In all other respects, the man is not great. The man’s greatness lies in living a life that is as it is – a life of Truth, a true life. However, if he has a life in that life, there is no greatness in his life.
Question:
There are opposing theories, one being that the human nature is fundamentally good and the other being that the human nature is fundamentally bad. Which is right?
Woo Myung :
Before all creations and the man were born, it was the state of absolute nothingness. This emptiness of non-existence that is perfection transformed into the man. This emptiness of non-existence is where originally nothing exists; in other words, where there is no thought, no meaning, not even existence or non-existence. Therefore, when one is born it is not that one’s nature is fundamentally good or bad. It is not good or evil. In Truth, the very conceptions of good and evil do not exist, but the reason that the man has both good and evil in him is because he has the mind of self-existence.
Question:
What are the roots of the human mind? What causes thoughts – which did not originally exist and do not disappear but instead hardens and begets other human minds – to arise in one’s mind like clouds?
Woo Myung :
The roots of human minds are arrogance, pride and greed which people find difficult to discard. The reason the man is not able to discard these minds is because they are tools that help to sustain his existence. It is said that the roots of the human mind are deep. This means that one’s mind has become dark and thick because of his greed, and that this disposition has taken over a large part of his mind. When a person is young, he does not have human minds. They are made as he lives his life and they settle in his chest like a cloud. They continue to breed other minds, and in doing so they harden and become larger. The way to become free from these minds is to repent but this cannot wholly remove them all, which is why one must liberate himself completely through d? ? by seeking Truth.
Question :
How is health related to the mind?
Woo Myung :
People believe healthy bodies lead to healthy minds but this is not correct. Rather the reverse is true – one’s mind must be healthy in order to have a healthy body. When one’s mind is healthy, the body is less susceptible to illnesses. A healthy mind refers to a mind without greed; in other words, it refers to being without self. This is the best way to become healthy. The reason exercise is good for the health is because it frees the body from the thoughts and delusions that were making it ill. It also serves to give a person a sense of accomplishment through movement. Although exercise is beneficial for one’s health, it has the shortcoming that it must be done regularly and diligently. In general, hard-working people tend to be healthy because they do not have time to sow seeds of illness in their minds. A person who enjoys exercising but does not exercise tends to become ill more easily. It is impossible to say which form of exercise is the best one, because they all have their pros and cons. It is natural that a person who moves a lot lives longer than a person who moves less, but the best way to become healthy is to depart from all things – to eliminate all the minds you have. When you do this, the energy channels in your body are able to flow smoothly. Illnesses are cured and disappear in the place where there is a complete absence of these minds.
Question :
The philosopher Pascal said that “the man is a thinking reed”. Is what he said right?
Woo Myung :
Pascal called the man a thinking reed because the man’s mind changes frequently according his thoughts. The human mind cannot help but change because the man is ignorant of Truth. The man’s mind and thoughts were formed to help him survive, but it can have the opposite effect when he does not know his origin, his true self. Truth is that which never changes, so when the man comes to know Truth he will no longer be confused by those who pretend to know.
Question :
What should the man learn from the nature?
Woo Myung :
The man is the nature; the nature is the man; all creations are the man; and the man is all of creation. People are blind so they can only see what is right in front of them. They, therefore, believe that the various things that they see exist. However, if there was something that the man could learn from water, it is that water exists in accordance with the nature’s flow. It is not stubborn or obstinate; it exists simply as it is. The man should learn the nature’s flow from water. All things in the nature are simply as they are, but only the man makes a self and constantly makes and destroys delusions that arise from his shape and form. Therefore, he must learn from the nature, which is silently subservient. Everything in the world is one, but people have given names to every form and judge them.
Question :
What can one do to reach the goals that he has set for himself?
Woo Myung :
A goal is an objective, a target. Above all, one must act in a way that is in accordance to the goals he has set. The main reason people do not reach their goals is because they lack action. Lacking actions means that they are without movement, and movement is sacrifice. Sacrifice is gathering the strength from other areas of his life or other people. The strength from other areas of his life or other people is needed in order to reach one’s goals, and that the strength comes from his actions and sacrifices. It is possible to exceed one’s goals when there is action, but without action, a goal can never be reached and remains as a dream. In order to reach one’s goals, one must use the strength from other areas but that strength is one’s actions and sacrifice. If there is action, it is possible to exceed one’s goals, but without action a goal remains a dream and cannot be reached. The most fundamental reason people are not able to reach their goals is because they are without action and have a self; their bodies are too precious so they are unable to put in the action to reach their goals. In any case, the easiest way to reach a goals is through action.
Question :
How should we educate our children?
Woo Myung :
The best way to raise our children is to teach them how to eliminate their selves. If this is difficult, show them through your own sacrifices – then you will succeed. People try to reap a harvest without sowing seeds, but for such people their harvest will be one of weeds. The sacrifice is the true seed. The bigger the sacrifice, the better the seed it becomes. There is no way to grow a true plant unless you plant a true seed. If you teach your children to act only for their own benefit and to use their shallow cunning, you limit the growth of their minds and characters – called a person’s ‘caliber’ in Korean – and rather than becoming a ‘big tree’ they will become weak plants that are likely to die. They will not be able to grow properly and have many limitations. Only when a person sacrifices with a truthful mind, can he gather other people’s strength to him and become a ‘big tree.’ Living in this way is Truth but people live imprisoned by their small selves, which have deviated from their original mind, because they do not know this. The sacrifice becomes the greatest driving force for one’s life in society; it is the shortcut to success and it can make the size of a person’s “caliber” infinite.
Question :
What is a philosophy?
Woo Myung :
A philosophy is the study of human life by examining it in detail. It can also be called the study of human thoughts and ideologies, but at times it only serves to confuse people because the human thoughts and the ideologies differ from Truth. It is not possible to gain answers through the philosophy no matter how much it is studied. The only way to gain real answers to discover one’s true self. Once this happen, one will know that the philosophy is imperfect. Although there are some correct philosophical statements, they are lacking the fundamental essence and they cannot show us what perfection is. The philosophy lays out the human ideologies and thoughts. The problem lies in the fact that those ideologies and thoughts differ from person to person. When one discovers his true self, it is possible to discern what is right and wrong in the philosophy, the human ideology and thoughts. Although the philosophy is needed in people’s lives, it is problematic in that it is not perfect.
Question :
What is the origin?
Woo Myung :
The man and all creations in the world have an origin, and that origin is the same for all things. To be same is to be one; it is not something that is here, there, or somewhere else. It is from this origin that we were born and it is where we will return. It is the place from whence all creations came, and where they will go back to. This origin is the ‘vitality’ or ‘life force’ of the Universe, and this peaceful energy exists though it is without form. More exactly, it neither exists nor does not exist; vitality is the origin of Truth that exists somewhere in between. It is the eternal, never-changing Truth; since everything came from it, realizing its eminence is what d? (Truth, the Way, or the practice of Truth) is. When seen with the mind’s eyes, it is of a sticky but transparent form. The origin is the great true self.
Question :
What is the origin and process of the creation of all things?
Woo Myung :
All things are created to suit the traits of the environment in which they are created. The creation happens through earth, water, wind and fire, so they are the source of creation. All things that are created someday return back to earth, water, wind and fire. Although all things go through this process of creation, the Universe neither expands nor contracts when this happens; it is as it is. When material things are come into being, people believe it was ‘created’ but it was not; it is as it always was. When nylon is made from coal, it is only that the form and traits of the original material have changed; its essence remains the same. Things do not come into existence from non-existence. In actual fact, the non-material or the metaphysical is what is real; what appears with form is false. Things come into being from original existence, so it can be said that no ‘creation’ happens. In other words, all things come from the non-material metaphysical plane and return back to it. The creation of the universe happens through the exhalation of the original God-body of the Universe and through its inhalation they disappear.
Question :
Although gods are philosophical, the word ‘God’ has a theological meaning, which is why Nietschze claimed that, “God is dead.” Is this statement correct?
Woo Myung :
The meaning behind Nietschze’s statement is that although God exists, people cannot see him. There was always God in all things. This God is everything that moves, and in the time before the coming of Truth this was seen as the individual, thus there were many gods, but in the future all gods will unite and become one. It will become the time of the one God. Nietschze said that God is dead because people sought God from the outside world and did not know the true meaning of God. God exists but yet does not; does not exist and yet exists. God is the mind of existence, thus God is that which is as it is, and it is wrong to say that God is dead. It exists amidst nothingness, and it does not exist within existence. Such is God. All of these things becoming one according to the nature’s flow is God of the time after the coming of Truth.
Question :
Some people believe that God does not exist. They want evidence of the God’s existence in order to believe otherwise. Is there any way to prove God exists?
Woo Myung :
Every moving thing is God. People do not believe this because it is not something that they can see but the emptiness is God, as are all celestial bodies in the sky. They are God because they move. The Universe is also God. The appearance and disappearance of the countless celestial bodies and creations in the Universe occur through the providence of God. People do not believe God exists even as they are looking at God because they judge whether or not he exists by their conceptions that he would exist as a particular form if he did exist. The creation and movement of all things are done by God. If God did not exist, nothing would be able to exist. God is the nature’s flow so all things, just as they are, are God. People cannot see God because they seek God in the form of a human being. God cannot be seen with our physical eyes; God can only be seen by the mind’s eyes. Therefore it is wrong to think of God with one’s conceptions and then conclude that God does not exist. Before the coming of Truth, it was thought that only mind exists, but in the time after the coming of Truth, the existence of God will come to light. Such is what great enlightenment is. God is things in existence just as they are, and all things with form are self-sufficient. That is, they have the power of self-existence. The innumerable stars in the sky are God which exists of and by itself. We should realize that the celestial bodies run according to the nature’s flow by the power of God. God is omnipotent and omniscient; God is also eternal and the nature’s flow. Man lives in suffering and he does not have eternal life because he does not live according to this universal order. God is eternal, omnipotent and omniscient. God is things in existence, just as they are. If God did not exist, neither would the Universe and all creations in it. The power of God is expressed through the nature’s flow, and it is God who punishes those who betray this order: people receive the consequences of their actions when they treat the nature in a way that is against universal order. Therefore, learning the order of nature is to learn the order of God.
Question :
What is enlightenment and how can we become enlightened?
Woo Myung :
Enlightenment is when one comes to know Truth. It is not simply knowing Truth in theory, but truly accepting it in one’s heart. Enlightenment in one’s heart is the discovery of one’s real self – the discovery of the place of one’s mind. This is the only Truth that exists in the world, and it is everlasting and never-changing. Previously, it was extremely difficult to become enlightened because a master or teacher who had truly attained and knew this state did not exist. Now, it is possible for anyone to become enlightened of their original nature within one week. It has become a world where anyone can become enlightened, without having to abandon all that they have and go into the mountains for solitary meditation.
Question :
How can the true self be found?
Woo Myung :
No one can see their true selves, because it is hidden by their forms and their lives. This is a similar state to a dirty mirror that should reflect back one’s image, but does not. In order to find one’s true self, one must clean that dirty mirror. Namely, one must cleanse one’s self. Cleansing one’s self is to eliminate it completely, which is the way to truly find one’s self. Until now it was difficult to find one’s true self no matter what kind of ascetic methods he practiced. Now it can be found easily by anyone. One’s true self is Truth, and it is the Universe. Knowing that the Universe is one’s self is the discovery of his true self.
Question :
Why is man called a ‘small Universe’ and is it right to call him this?
Woo Myung :
Man is called a “small Universe” because it is possible for man to have the Universe within his mind, and become the Universe. While man’s body is a “small Universe” that resembles earth, man himself is not just a ‘small Universe’ but the Universe itself. It is said that all creations exist just as they are inside man but this is only man’s point of view. When man dies after having been born in the Universe, he returns to the Universe; likewise, the Universe exists, just as it is, in man. It is not Man’s thoughts that allow the Universe to exist. Man is not a ‘small Universe’ but he is the Universe itself just as it is. The man’s mind is the Universe.
Question :
What does “returning to the origin of the Universe” mean?
Woo Myung :
Whether it be man, animals, plants, the celestial bodies in the sky or earth itself, everything returns to non-existence – the origin of the Universe. Non-existence is without form; it is immaterial and amidst nothingness, the original ‘body’ that is the origin of the Universe exists. To do d? (seek or practice Truth) is to return to this original body that is insubstantial and yet substantial, that exists amidst non-existence and does not exist amidst existence. The creations of the Universe, just as they exist, are this existence that is substantial and insubstantial. Therefore, d? is knowing this existence that is our original selves, and this knowing is to return to the origin of the Universe.
